Hey guys, Megan here as the other facilitator for Blog #2.
In chapter four of “Understanding Comics” by Scott McCloud, he
talks about how comics could have a frame that expand over time and could
include gutters in between each moment. Our minds create the connection that a
scene can take place over an amount of time depending on the frame. Since this
was written in 1994, a lot about frame work has changed. People have used the
internet as a source to expand their comics and a few have taken advantage of
internet art. This new form of comic is call GIF Comics.
Here are some different examples:
Ava's Demon
Spacestronaut: http://thespacestronaut.tumblr.com/page/8
Ava's Demon: http://avasdemon.tumblr.com/
Homestuck: http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6
GIFs can be used for small actions: exaggerating words, emphasizing
actions and more. These comics use GIFs for part or for all of their comics.
Do you think GIF Comics are comics?
McCloud points out that lines are our visual cues and icons to activate our senses. Movie theaters have been adding sense to movies for the audience to become more involved with the show (3D and 4D). With the evolution of movies, is it possible for comics to adapt to these changes? Will it take way from the quality of what makes a comic book a comic book or will it create more experience for the reader? For example getting rid of “that ripe smell” wave lines (like the ones over the trash) for a scratch and sniff.
GIFS are becoming more and more integrated within media ever sense they first came to life. They say small, fast statements. Along with the repetitive nature of the file, GIFS seem to be new medium on the rise in most aspects. Does that make GIF comics a legitimate comic, according McCloud’s definition? Personally I think not. GIF lacks a lot of the sequential movements that makes comics different from animation and movies. Along with the most recent clarification of comics in the last reading, GIFS don’t allow for all passages of time to be seen simultaneously at all times, like the different panels on a comic book page allows. I find this problem with a lot of web-based comics, most show panel by panel, rather than doing page by page. To me this way of comic-ing destroys the gutter, turning it into a reloaded page rather than the space between two panels. The panels being sequential allows for one to travel time, in the comic, in any fashion that they may wish.
ReplyDeleteGIFS are still a very young medium, or tool, to most artist and many are experimenting with its many possibilities. I do think GIFs do have a place within the new world of Web-based comics, maybe in the form of Cinemagraphs, more so than fully animated scenes. Example: http://i.imgur.com/IIcY0eS.gif
With Cinemagraphs incorporated into backgrounds and other scenes, along with still drawings/photos, comics will start to evoke more emotions and interest within individual scenes. This two could be how comic could become more sensory active, along with scratch and sniff pictures and even 3-D panels, would just require glasses, but it is possible. Along with the 3D frames within comics, I would be very interested in comics that use the new technology of augmented reality to their own advantage. Most of society has the means to view augmented realities with our smart phones with an addition of an app, obviously developed for augmented realities. I think that could push comics into a whole new level of sequential imagery and interactivity with society.
Fascinating idea about cinemagraphs, as well as your point that GIFS skirt the divide between movies and comics. I have trouble deciding how/ whether they would fit under McCloud's rubric. How, for instance, do GIF comics record time?
DeleteI think that GIIFs could definitely have a place in comics, but maybe not quite the way you are talking about. In comics as McCloud states, there are several different ways to show motion. I think the GIFs could simply be a new way to show motion. Whereas Kirby used the swoosh lines, newer web comic artists do things like this:
ReplyDeletehttp://explosm.net/comics/3639/
While this isn't the best example, I think it fits pretty darn well. It shows exactly what Kirby would be showing with swoosh lines, but instead with actual motion. Rather than breaking from McCloud's definition of comics, I feel like this fits right in. Still very pictorial, still very sequential, and it doesn't break away really from the comic form. It accomplishes in one frame what could have either taken two, or used swish lines. To me, it's just a new way to show that motion that artists keep trying to figure out. And I like it. Obviously this wouldn't work on paper, but it works via GIFs. It shows enough motion to create the feel, but doesn't stray away from being a comic.
I would gut reaction say that I don't see a way comics could activate more senses than just the sight. But I would immediately want to step back from that, because really, who knows what will take place for comics in the future. It's definitely possible. I think it would redesign our definition of comics a little bit, but I don't think that would be a bad thing. I think the scratch and sniff idea is genius. Activate the sense of smell could lead to a whole new and weird grasp of comics that wasn't really there before. It's one thing to visualize smell, which artists have been able to do. But to actually smell it? That'd be cool. GIFs are similar to this. We can draw motion, but to actually show motion in a comic is something relatively new. But super cool. When we can see the motion, we can feel it and understand it. The swoosh lines didn't keep us from this, but I think the added motion really drives the point home. I'm excited to see where comics go in the future, although I think I'd prefer something different from scratch and sniff or buttons to play sounds. Keeping it in the adult world (or at least the universal world). But I could definitely see something being made to bridge this gap, and I would welcome it.
I like your thoughts about GIFs and motion. Also: I wonder about how we might view comics that become cartoon films within the framework of the sensory you mention in your last paragraph...
DeleteI personally think that GIFs are more like a film in that the sequential pictures are shown rapidly, like a moving picture. I think that McCloud might agree that part of the beauty of a comic book is in being able to invent and create for yourself the actions taking place in the gutters between the panels. For this reason, I would argue that while GIFs are not exactly comics, they can be considered a form of comic art because they use cartoons and icons to express their meaning. Maybe GIF is becoming its own art form?
ReplyDeleteWhile I'm not sure how I'd feel about a scratch-and-sniff comic, I am sure that it could happen in the future. As McCloud himself admits, the possibilities are endless. I personally enjoy using sight alone to bring the comic books to life. For one thing, if the sounds were actually heard by the ear, it might take away from the beauty of creating that sound for yourself. Same for scents being smelled and textures being felt. For another thing, it could even be distracting from the story itself. I think this is why Smell-a-vision never really took off; it was just too distracting and weird. However, I don't mean to say that comics engaging more than one of the senses is entirely out of the question. It could be possible and even very likely to come in the future. But would this still be considered a comic book? Or would it, like a GIF, become its own, new art form entirely.
Scratch-and-sniff! I miss my scratch-and-sniff stickers.
DeleteWeb-comics seem to occupy a grey area of art and it's hard to say if I'd consider them a comic or not. McCloud's definition of comics as “juxtaposed pictorial and other images in deliberate sequence, intended to convey information and/or produce an aesthetic response in the reader” doesn't clarify much either. Of the web-comics given in the post, The Spacetronaut confuses me the most. Where do you draw the line between an animation and a comic? There's no textual devices, and the transitions are happening within the same panel through animation. Ava's Demon seems to follow the most traditional comics structure, but at the end is wrapped up with what seems more like an animation than a comic to me. The gutters seem to take the form of clicking through to a new page, which somewhat eleminates the spatial "timing" that McCloud was discussing in Ch 3.
ReplyDeleteAll this to say that I have a hard time considering these comics, as they leave out a lot of the invisible aspects of comics i.e. closure, and the pace set through panels and gutters.
That's an interesting point about expanding sensory and media. I don't think that 3D, etc has worked well for film. When I go to see a movie, I like to get sucked into a good story without being distracted by things flying at me. To me, if extra senses are going to be stimulated, it should be seamless. In the example given, about the "ripe smell waves" and a scratch and sniff, the waves (at this point in time) are more seamless. I'm not wording that very well, but to expand on it: remember when McCloud was saying that the simplicity of cartoons allow us to take in stories, ideas, etc better than realistic drawings? I think the same rule applies here. The stink waves are iconic, where as the realistic smell is distracting.
That's my take anyway.
I agree that 3D has had a pretty ambivalent role in film, despite people's belief that it would usher in an utopian era in the movies. I wonder, as you do, how we would distinguish between animation and comics if we think about GIFs.
DeleteWell- I had to look up the definition of GIF in order to answer this question so my response is based on a limited knowledge of the subject. However, from the examples I saw on the internet, GIFs seem to be more related to cartoons than comics. The special effects used to create them make them play like a cartoon or movie instead of a comic. McCloud states that "the mastery of any medium using minimal elements has long been considered a noble aspiration." I have to agree with him here. There is something special about being able to communicate with an audience by utilizing a simple pen and piece of paper.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I didn't see much break -- or gutter -- in the images. There is something special about the gutters in a comic book and the reader's role in filling in those spaces that is lacking in the GIF. The relationship between creator and reader is far greater in comics than in any other medium. I agree with McCloud when he states, "The comics creator asks us to join in a silent dance of the seen and the unseen. This dance is unique to comics. No other artform gives so much to its audience while asking so much FROM them as well." I think this is what makes comics so special. To quote McCloud one more time... sorry everyone but I love the way he puts everything so simply and yet with so much meaning... "What happens between these panels is a kind of magic ONLY comics can create."
Nice way of distinguishing what is special about the medium of comics! I wonder if GIFs can be participatory, as well.
DeleteI think that GIFs can be comics, but not all GIFs are comics. There have been comics online since the late '90s, but they have largely been the same as those found in print. With the advent of the animated GIF, people began to experiment with new ways of showing actions in the panels of their comics. Before this, as McCloud points out, the artist had to use tricks such as repeated or blurred images in order to show movement as well as relying on closure. But GIFs also allow for new types of writing and humor that could not possibly be done in print. Take, for example, the following comic from PBF comcs:
ReplyDeletehttp://pbfcomics.com/archive_b/PBF259-Beach_Closing.gif
By utilizing the animated GIF, this artist created a piece that is certainly a comic, but is also very unique because of the motion contained within it. Such motion could never be drawn onto a piece of paper. However, although GIFs can be considered comics, I believe that they also have the potential to create an entire new form of storytelling. We have already seen them used in things such as motion comics and the other comics linked in this post, and I believe that these are the first entries in this new form of storytelling.
As for what changes comics could/should adopt in order to engage readers, I personally feel that it would be dangerous to try and force changes the way that movies have. Sure, 3D is kind of cool, but it takes me out of the story because I have to wear those inane glasses. Additionally, most movies are not actually being filmed in 3D, instead being converted in post-production. This makes it even more difficult to "get into" the story because it's being told in a manner it wasn't designed for. Comics and other books have experimented with things as well, such as the aforementioned scratch-and-sniff. I don't mind scratch-and-sniff, but those little pads have a very finite number of scratches to them. I think that the most important thing that comics can do now is find a way to make the story more internal. Readers these days want to see inside the characters, to understand their struggles. Comics tend to be very external simply because of the way they are made, but I think there are ways that they can make the story more internal.
One of the things we'll discuss this semester is precisely this question of whether/ how comics can show internal states. Great points here.
DeleteWhen I think of GIFS, I think of vines and excerpts from movies with text written over it. It’s hard to place where exactly GIFS stand, but they fit more into the categories of short films and animation. Not to mention, they don’t fit into Scott McCloud’s definition of comics. Although I did enjoy Mike Evans’s web link of a GIF comic. I don’t think the process would transfer well to a hundred page comic. Also, I’m not sure if showing motion fits in McCloud’s definition. This leads me to ask if the definition should be changed to include movements into comics or not? I believe it would be too distracting, but of course I can’t say for certain. Call me old school, but I just prefer to read my comics on paper rather than on a screen because if I’m going to be looking at a screen, why not just watch a movie.
ReplyDeleteAs for the scratch and sniff idea. I don’t know that I would actually like that because I prefer to let my imagination do the work. I also agree with what Sebastian said about sounds and smells being added to comics. I think it would be too much of a distraction. It’s hard to see what the future may bring for the world of comics.
Your comment is very interesting and brings up. again, the analogy between comics and film.
DeleteWhen I think of comics, I guess I think more of the classics instead of GIFs being a part of the comic scene. I think of comics being more traditional rather than animated films. I don't think they fit McCloud's definition of a comic would include GIFs (but what do I know, I'm new to this whole comic/GIF thing)! Also, there is no use of gutters, which is what makes a comic unique! The gutters and the shapes and sizes of the panels are what help us indicate time and breaks which is not seen in GIFs.
ReplyDeleteWith the more interactive comics that you mentioned--or the scratch and sniff-- I think it would be awesome! I don't think it would take away from the message that the comic is trying to relay but gives the reader a chance to feel more included in the storyline. McCloud discusses Kandinsky and his peers searching for an art that would unite the senses--this would be a great way to do it! When I go to an interactive movie where it ignites my senses, I feel more in tune with the storyline.
Interesting to think of what interactive comics might look like!
DeleteGIFs do remind me of Vines and “moving pictures” in general more than comics. I like the idea of sections moving, but I really missed having that gutter and having to work to imagine the movement myself. I’ve heard of the 4-D theaters and it could definitely be applied to comics as well. Personally, I’m not as excited about exploring this forth sense in reading as I am about utilizing the other senses deeper. I like the idea McCloud presents in his Ted Talk about viewing the computer monitor as a window frame to a larger comic. Understanding the other frames in relation to the frame a reader is currently viewing, McCloud’s “past, present, future” concept, could really be developed in interesting ways when comics are read online. He also describes this as a sort-of “choose your own adventure” where the reader’s spatial decisions drive the plot of comic, which could work really well in a digital environment. I would enjoy reading comics that stretch my spatial sense in the future more than smelling anything or watching GIFs.
ReplyDeleteGlad you took a look at the TED talk! I think that the idea of the monitor as frame helps us to understand how web comics might fit within McCloud's definition.
DeleteEver since the Internet was introduced into the public, it has become an extremely powerful tool in our everyday lives. Some people can live without it, but many people need it, and for good reasons. Even now people are taking advantage to this revolutionary invention in more ways than can be imagined. One of these ways includes self-publishing novels, short stories, artwork, even comics. The comics that you find on the internet are called GIF Comics, and they are real comics. GIF Comics are comics that are self-published over the Internet. I believe this and so should everyone else.
ReplyDeleteWith the evolution of movies continuing to rise in 3D and 4D, it is possible for comics to adapt to these changes as well. However I do not think that it is necessary. When a person reads a comic, their imaginative process is peaked in a way that appeals to the reader. If the comics evolve off of the pages then it will take away its very nature.
This brings up some of the same questions many of us face when thinking about the rise of e-readers vs. print books. What do we lose/ gain in the transition between media?
DeleteIt took me a while to find to find the link but this is definitely worth talking about when it comes to electronic comics and graphic novels.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.bottom-of-the-ninth.com/
Ryan Woodward is an animator and illustrator who put this project together. The style and technique that Woodward uses is reminiscent of traditional graphic novels. But there is an added element of sound and motion that really pushes the boundaries of graphic novels. The Novel doesn't follow the stale rhythm of turning pages but rather navigates the different windows of the story, creating fluid interaction between the scenes. Perhaps my favorite part of the project is the way it draws on traditional methods of showing motion. In many superhero comic books the illustrations portray moments of extreme physical exertion. Whether it is punching a protagonist, or flying through space the implied action is shown at its peak. I think this is an important thing to realize that the protagonist isn't shown winding up, but when they are at their fullest extension. In the graphic novel, the illustrator chooses to animate these sequences and pause the protagonist at this same peak right before the action. We never get to see the collision between the our superheroes fist and the bad guys jaw, instead we see a brief snapshot. This implied moment is what I think really keeps Woodward's work within the realm of graphic novels.
I can't find it anywhere, but there was a webcomic (I think by Bryan Lee O'Malley, but not sure...) that utilized regular comics in the way that we typically would think of them, and occasionally they would bring in a frame that would incorporate some form of movement and even in some places sounds each time you would "turn the page."
ReplyDeleteWhile I like the idea of it and think it greatly expands the borders of what comics can do and be, I do feel it takes away a lot of the creative/imaginative participation that comics give the readers the chance to do. But I definitely would say, with at least this example, GIFs and using other forms of multimedia, it can open up the reader to experiencing new senses in comics.
I'll keep looking for the comic and post it here if I can find it.
It's hard for me to say that GIF comics are the same as regular comics for one particular reason: more often than not they take away the control of pacing from the reader. Doing so puts them more in line with film or animation. Comics are a medium that are dependent on being page-viewed (even if that page is digital). Panel layout, spacing, and placement are all inherent to how a comic story unfolds.
ReplyDeleteCase in point: in Watchmen there is a chapter called "Fearful Symmetry" (if you are unfamiliar with it, you can google it. There are a multitude of analysis of it). The structure of the chapter hinges heavily on repeated panels with slight differences, or how sequential movement unfolds. A couple of years ago an animated version of the Watchmen comic was released, which took the original art and text and simply translated it using simple flash animation (this can be found on iTunes). By taking away the ability to observe the panel layout on the page, and taking away the ability for the reader to control when and what they were seeing, a lot of the artistry in the chapter was lost.
When the reader loses the ability to control how his or her eyes move over a page, something that is bound to the very dan of the medium is lost.
I do think that GIF comics are comics. To me they are merely a sign of the medium adapting to new technology and utilizing digital tools to better engage the audience. Depending on the effect that the artist uses it can add excitement and intrigue that still images may not be able to get across. This is especially true of comics with horror eliminates in which the use of a GIF in frame can startle and frighten a reader in almost the same way as a horror movie.
ReplyDeleteThe idea of 3D and 4D is a bit iffy for me. I love the idea of 3D effects such as GIFs or similar. It would be difficult for printed comics to take advantage of these innovation but it’s a huge step for digital and web-based comics; it creates a more interactive experience for the reader and brings life to a comic. However 4D effects I’m not certain about. Scratch and sniff would be pushing it to me simply since the smell would likely fade over time and I don’t think a lot of readers would be willing to scratch and sniff in the first place. Any other 4D effect would be hard to accomplish regardless of it being print or online. I’d have to say that comics could easily adapt to 3D effects but 4D would be difficult if not impossible to incorporate.
Yes, I feel that GIF comics can be placed in the same category as traditional comics. I feel that the GIF comic is just an evolution of the medium. Just as traditional painting and drawing have evolved because of the introduction of the computer software. It is only natural that the world of comics would do the same. I do not think GIF comics are any different than digital comics you would see on any tablet or e-reader.
ReplyDeleteThere are 3D comics, some even come with the 3D glasses to read them, a 3D comic that comes to mind is Hamster Vice in 3-D by Dwayne Ferguson. I do not have an issue with 3D but 4D I am not so sure about. The 4th dimension appeals to the senses. Do I want to taste what the hero is tasting? Of feel the latex costume of super villain? I do not know maybe if it is done right it might be a good experience, I just can't say.
Maybe I'm a traditionalist (read: old), but I do not feel GIF comics meet the criteria of comics. Sure they are sequential images meant to convey a thought or emotion ... but I'd put them more into the cartoon or film camp. I feel GIF comics are in their infancy and may in time mature into their own medium. At this juncture, GIFs dictate too much of the pacing and action and perhaps most damning, they animation seems completely arbitrary; more of a gimmick than a means to add substance to the story. This is a tough question and I'm not sure there is a singular "right" answer.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry this is a little late, I didn't see this post:
ReplyDeleteI think these .gif pieces would be called comics by their fans (and for things like homestuck, there are a lot of them). I'd call them comics as well. I don't think comics need to be static images now that we have the technology to transcend them through digital media. Just because its moving doesn't mean its no longer sequential. The images are just sped up so they appear to be moving. Perhaps these pieces cross some boundaries into animation, but I think a broad understanding of comics has room for them.
Though gifs in and of themselves are not comics, the technology can be utilized within the form of comics to create what the 'gif comic,' which of course is a comic. The essential tenets of the medium still subsist, just with the additive quality of a moving part. This, however, can complicate notions of time, sequence, etc. The gif comic is quite analogous to the poster's second topic—3D film.
ReplyDeleteIn terms of the "possibility" for comics to adapt, the technology of 3D video doesn't have much to do with printed works. There's already '3D' print, but one would have to consider hypothetical inventions in order to think about the application to comics. One can only speculate, but I don't imagine these advancements being any contribution to the genre beyond mere fad. As with film advancements, there seems to be a trend of diminishing returns—the novelty of 3D has leveled out more or less, and cameras have gotten to a point of high definition that bothers the viewer more than entices them (one can look to The Hobbit series, which had to rework the resolution after negative reception to the look of the series).
I find GIFs to be less of a comic and more of animations. Based of the examples given, they fall into what I would call an interactive animation. Watching a GIF is what makes me think this. You would watch a GIF similar to how you would watch an animation. Not how you would read a comic. Not to say there cannot be animations within comics, mainly with the idea of digital comics, but I do not believe a comic can be solely based of of something like GIFs or animations.
ReplyDelete