Persepolis and History

In the early half of "Persepolis," Marji begins to learn about the history of her family. As a history major, I have always been interested by history and enjoy exploring the history of my own family. In many ways, it seems like the history of one's family affects who that person is. Marji and her family are progressive because of her grandfather's personal history with the Shahs. In what other ways do Marji's family history play a role in her story of coming of age? Does her family's past affect who she becomes? Or does it help to create the ideal person she desires to be?

Persepolis the film

For our next "class," please watch Persepolis the film.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R97e6d0CNPk

We will then discuss the difference between comics-as-film and comics-as-book.

Great conversations so far!

Persepolis 151-250 Discussion Post

The latter part of Persepolis deals with Marji's awkward emergence into adulthood. As a child, she struggled to fit into the roles pressed upon her and frequently found herself at odds with other children. As an adult, Marji encounters a great deal of new experiences as she tries to assimilate in her new home. Do you believe exposure to different cultures and beliefs is healthy or destructive toward personal identity? Do you find the scenes involving Marji's astonishment regarding sexuality and domestic disobedience humorous or do you pity her? Also, are there any examples of her finding comfort in the traditional values of her childhood?

Matt Evans Persepolis Post

One major difference that I've noticed between Persepolis and Maus is the point of view from which we're seeing the violence that occurs. In Maus, we're seeing it from the eyes of a fully grown man, to whom a great amount of the violence is directed. In Persepolis, it's primarily from the eyes of a young girl no older than 14, who really rarely actually witnesses the violence, to a point where it almost becomes a sidenote to the life of Marji that we're going through. Do you think that the fact that we're getting it from the perspective of a child takes away from what really went on, or do you think it showed everything reasonably well?
If not...are they ways you think she could have shown it better? I know it's the true story from her perspective, but I feel like I don't know much more about the Iranian revolts and whatnot than I did before I read it.
Or do you think that's not even meant to be the focus of the story? I know it's a coming of age story about her during and after the revolts, but it still took me off guard how little of all that we actually witnessed.

I understand that I am not scheduled to create a blog posting at this time, however, I found a video that I thought would be of interest at this time with our class currently reading Persepolis. Since a great deal of the story is through the eyes of a child living through a revolution, I felt that this video would be a good example of something that could have been seen during the time line of the story.

I felt that this video helped me to better understand the characters and the setting of the story. Since I myself do not have such an experience, I find watching something like this helps in placing myself in the mindset of the characters. (Like method acting, but for reading.)

Comics and 1st-Person

So far, the two graphic narratives we've read in class have been powerful memoirs--1st-person stories of violence and loss.   Given what we remember from McCloud, particularly his assertion that comics artists encourage reader identification through their use of icons, the gutter, and closure, can we say that comics are a medium particularly appropriate for telling first-person stories?  What do you think?

For more on comics and the first-person, check out:

 this book on comics, gender, and first-person storytelling

or this great article on the "I" and comics

Resources on Ideology

Oxford Dictionary definition

History of Ideology

Ideology and the ruling class 

60-second intro to ideology on youtube

For information on Althusser and his idea of Ideological State Apparatuses, click here.

Persepolis and Childhood

 As some of you have noted, both Maus and Persepolis tell first person stories, but Satrapi's book, in contrast to Spiegelman's, narrates the tale of the Iranian Revolution and its aftermath (see the post on resources on Iran below for more detail) from the perspective of a child.  How does that perspective affect the story Satrapi tells, especially given the stereotypical view of comics as a medium for kids?  Oliver's post below asks us to think, in various ways, about how the school setting functions as a site for exploring the role of ideology in everyday life.   How do you define ideology? How might comics--especially comics focusing on childhood and schooling--provide a unique purview for the exploration of ideology? 

Check out the clip below for more on how Satrapi's own childhood played into the construction of Persepolis.

Persepolis (pg.1-150): Finding Your Own Beliefs

Throughout Persepolis, Marjane Satrapi receives many different versions of similar information, mainly within school. Specifically on page 44 of my book, when Satrapi is punished in school for pointing out how the teacher was the one who once told them the Shah, recently exiled due to the revolution, was chosen by God. The pattern continues as she becomes older and more bold in her beliefs.

Media is another herald of information pointed out by Satrapi. Obviously media, can and/or is biased. Skepticism is then expected to follow. Starapi's father almost always checks the information he gets. On page 135, Marjane's mother says to her father "Even when you see something with your own eyes, you need confirmation from the BBC". This made me feel like Satrapi was heavily emphasizing on how people receive information as one of her main subjects. 

Is Satrapi asking the reader to look at different viewpoints on information distributed to the masses, through education and media? Does our educational system follow an unbiased document of history, or do these world events change our prewritten history based on specific beliefs? What kind of affect does this distorted, or tweaked, information have on students specifically?

Persepolis, 1-150

The graphic novel deals a lot with reputation and public perception. There is propaganda, prideful storytelling, and a lot of "hero" and "martyr" being thrown around. How is this reflected in Persepolis herself? How about her shifting opinion of her parents, and even her own self-image?

There is obviously a lot of discrimination within the text, towards a litany of circumstances. So where does privilege lie in this society, and how can we see it operating through the first half of the graphic novel? (Effects, rebellion, acceptance...)

Giving respect to form, what are some of everyone's favorite panels in terms of aesthetic and visual content? How do its qualities lend themselves to the story?

Resources on Iran and Iranian Revolution

Brief History of Iran

BBC timeline

NY Times Guide to Iranian Revolution 

BBC documentary

Introduction to Marjane Satrapi

Marjane Satrapi was born in Iran in 1969 and lived through some of the most difficult years of the nation's history. Satrapi's family was a politically-active one with members critical of both the Shah of Iran and the Islamic regime that came to replace him. In Persepolis, Satrapi tells the story of her own childhood but also explores the complexities of Iranian history, the politics of imperialism, the strictures of religious fundamentalism, and the possibilities for survival in exile.

Like Maus, Marjane Satrapi's graphic narrative, Persepolis, is a memoir that marries text and image to tell a story of historical and personal rupture. Persepolis tells the story of Satrapi's childhood experiences during the time of the Islamic Revolution in Iran and her later exile from her homeland. How is Satrapi's story different from the usual coming-of-age narratives we are used to reading in novels and short stories? How does the visual aspect of Persepolis allow Satrapi to show/ not show the graphic violence perpetrated during the bloody revolts and warfare that took place in Iran during the time she was growing up? Persepolis has recently been made into a film. Is Persepolis the graphic narrative already somehow cinematic?

Maus II Post (by Matt Evans)

One of the most brutal and graphic scenes that I noticed during the reading was while they were fleeing Auschwitz and there was the scene where he compared the prisoner that was shot and killed to the squirming dog he saw shot during his childhood. We see legitimate animals used throughout the novel alongside the animalian human beings. It's generally some kind of side details (the rats, the bugs, the dog) that weren't necessary to moving the story forward. Did the utilization of real animals next to animalian humans take you outside of the story at all? Do you think that Spiegelman made it work/did it enhance (or did it not work for you) and why?

In terms of the photographs, we see lots of photographs throughout the course of the two volumes (volume one we see the picture that Anja and so on,) but at the end of volume two, we see an ACTUAL picture of Vladek. Why do you think Spiegelman chose to use a real picture, rather than just animate one like he did throughout the rest of the two volumes?

Discussion Post from Jennifer D.

Jennifer D. was running into some posting issues, so I am posting the following for her:

These panels from the beginning chapters of Maus II focus on Art Spiegelman’s worries over his ability to depict the horrors of the Holocaust. Given the subject, his doubts regarding his ability to recreate such an atrocity are understandable. At one point, he even wishes he could have been with his parents in Auschwitz so that he could really know what they lived through and therefore, be able to describe the events with more accuracy. Could anyone, much less Spiegelman, reconstruct something as horrible as the holocaust effectively?

 Knowing the feelings of inadequacy Spiegelman expresses in trying to reconstruct such a dark and complex reality, do you think his fears were justified or do you think he was able to show the horrors of Auschwitz and /or the holocaust effectively? Find a panel in your book where you think he accomplishes this feat and tell us why that panel spoke to you.

Much has been discussed regarding Art and Vladek’s relationship and Art’s frustration over the fact that he would never be the “perfect” son that Richieu was. He talks about the spookiness of having sibling rivalry with a snapshot and when Francoise says she thought the photo in Vladek and Anya’s room was of Art he states, “That’s the point. They didn’t need photos of me in their room… I was ALIVE!... The photo never threw tantrums or got in trouble… It was an ideal kid, and I was a pain in the ass. I couldn’t compete.”

Having discussed the dynamic relationships in this book, what does everyone make of the final frame? I didn’t catch it the first time I read it, but Vladek actually calls Art, “Richieu.” Why did Spiegelman choose to end the book this way? What was the final message to his audience?

Podcast on Maus

To add some other media to the mix, I made a small podcast in answer to some of your great points/ questions about Maus.  Take a listen, and let me know what you think and if my thoughts are helpful.

Maus II: Masks and Metaphors

A great deal of time has already been spent discussing the use of the animal metaphor in Maus, and rightfully so.  I want to go a different direction, just as the metaphor did in Maus II.  In the beginning of Chapter 2, Spiegelman pulls the reader back into "reality", drawing the characters as humans wearing masks.  Masks had previously been used as well, but in a different context (Jews trying to pass as Poles, for example).  He even makes a direct observation about his animal metaphor when he notes that his therapist's house was "overrun with cats and dogs".  Why would he draw the character back from the animal metaphor, choosing instead to show them as masked humans?  Furthermore, what does this passage suggest about Spiegelman's own thoughts on his metaphor?

At the end of Chapter 2, he plays with the animal metaphor yet again.  Art and Francoise are sitting on the porch after Vladek has gone to bed, discussing what to do now that Mala has left him.  During the scene, Art is shown swatting at mosquitoes and hitting them with a comically large cloud of bug spray before relenting and going back inside.  I consider the timing of this anecdote rather interesting, given the content of the rest of the chapter.  What do you think Spiegelman is showing with this plot point?  Furthermore, do you think this might have been an actual memory of his?

Finally, it is interesting to read the content of these memories when one considers that Art likely had more notes and recordings than he could possibly fit in these two books.  Given that line of thinking, it becomes even more interesting that Vladek is placed in such a positive light throughout the novel.  Art consistently pushes his father away, yet the way Vladek is portrayed seems to suggest something different, almost an admiration.  What do you make of this?  What about the fact that neither book contains a dedication to him?

Maus II: Questions and Observations

While reading this book,  as interesting as it is, sometimes I wonder if Vladek is including all the details. Some times when we try to recall things that have taken place in the past there may be some discrepancies, this may be intentional or unintentional. Do you think that maybe there were some things left out of Vladek's account, were  some things embellished even? There is one part in the book where Art read that there was was an orchestra playing when the prisoners were being marched to work by the Germans. According to Vladek there was no orchestra. I am not saying there was or was not. I am just using this as an example.

Another thought I had was about a panel on page 45 of my copy. It is when Art is visiting his therapist Pavel. While speaking to Art, Pavel states that "People haven't changed..." and suggest that maybe they need a newer, bigger Holocaust. Does something else like the Holocaust need to happen in order to get people to change? Or, is every thing okay and people don't need do any changing? I feel that with all that is going on in the world we all have a ways to go.

Vladek can be seen as a miser but he did look after others. When he was promoted by his Kapo he got shoes, a spoon, and a belt for Mandelbaum. He even gave away his bingo winnings to a woman he did not even know. Do these actions make you feel that Vladek is less of the stereotype his story may have you believe?

Discussion Post from Sebastian on MAUS:

Sebastian was having some problems with his log-in, so I am posting for him:

What makes "Maus" such an incredibly moving and powerful story is not only the detailed descriptions of life in Nazi Europe during World War II, but the complicated relationship between Vladek and Art. This father and son dynamic can be seen over and over again in their meetings. It is evident that Art's relationship with his father is the source of many of his psychiatric struggles, to which he readily admits. Yet the less obvious dynamic of the relationship is how Vladek plays out his psychiatric struggles on his son. What evidence are we given that Vladek has survivor's guilt? And how does this affect his relationship with Art? Furthermore, it would seem that Art's relationship with his mother is also an important one to the novel. Her death contributes to his spiral into depression and often looms overhead. In what ways can we see the effect Anja had on Art?

There is also an interesting amount of "breaking the fourth wall" that takes place in "Maus," almost always exclusively by the character of Art. While in the car with his wife, Francois, Art goes on a rant about his insecurities towards writing "Maus." Yet by the end of it, he relates that, "in real life you'd never have let me talk this long without interrupting" (176, MAUS Complete). Art implies that the conversation with Francois never really took place because it does not echo the reality of their relationship. What other instances are there of Art Spiegelman breaking the fourth wall?

​

Breaking the Frame

In our discussion of Scott McCloud, we talked a great deal about panel shape and consistency.  How might we use McCloud's vocabulary to talk about what Spiegelman does with panels in Maus?

 How does Spiegelman use panels to divide the image of Vladek and how does the bottom-right round panel work in the composition?  Why do you think he uses panels in this way during this particular scene?

Can you identify other scenes where Spiegelman experiments with panels/ framing?

Is there Any Place for Humor in the Holocaust?

Maus is a serious piece of literature about a very serious period of not-so-distant world history. Spiegelman's graphic novel certainly does not shy away from the horror and violence of the Holocaust. Yet, I personally found moments of humor throughout. For me, the biggest laugh was when Vladek and his friends ate the cake that was partially made out of laundry soap. The moment was genuine and a surprise. We can find bemusement in such a scenario, but this is a real life memory from an actual occurrence. And these people experienced the worst humanity has to offer; displacement, persecution, and genocide. I find it no coincidence that 3 pages after the laundry soap cake incident we have gone from comedy to tragedy as we see Vladec and Anja literally starving - going so far as to chewing on wood. 

What panels or scenarios (if any) did you find humorous? Did these moments seem natural and well integrated or contrived and obligatory "comic relief?" What function does humor serve in the novel? Finally, does humor merely break tension or also contribute to it? Any examples of this in pages 61-120?

Anthropomorphic Maus

Both Ruth and Matthew bring up great, related points about Maus.  I thought I'd bring some more context into what is already a rich conversation.

One of the interesting bits of background about Spiegelman's text is that the mice were not originally drawn quite so cartoonishly.  Instead, Spiegelman drew them in a manner that was more realistic/ human-like, clearly based in part on the famous photographs of concentration camp survivors taken by photographers such as Margaret Bourke-White.

Original sketch for Maus

Bourke-White photo from LIFE magazine of liberated prisoners

With this in mind, it's interesting to speculate about just why Spiegelman chose to revise his original mice into something more cartoonish.  As Jennifer D. said in her response, does it have something to do with the icon and identification, as McCloud would have them?  Is his decision to portray the Jews as mice problematic because it fundamentally essentializes race and trades in stereotype?  Or, as we will see more clearly in Book II of Maus, is he trying to suggest something more subversive about race and national identity--and the combined ridiculousness and danger of racism?  Does Spiegelman's choice to use animals in Maus encourage or forestall identification, in your opinion? Would you have responded differently to the mice if they were drawn in the manner of the more realistic, anthropomorphic sketch above?

Another important aspect of the Jews-as-mice, Germans-as-cats, Poles-as-pigs metaphor, as many of you have noted, is its historical accuracy in terms of the stereotypes in currency before and during the war, as well as the preoccupation that many Germans had with whether the Jews were a race.

Beginning during the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, roughly coterminous with the Enlightenment's investment in creating scientific and racial taxonomies, anxiety about Jewish racial difference came to center around the Jewish body. Many Europeans became obsessed with the idea that Jews were members of an inferior, non-white race. Part of this obsession centered around the idea that Jews had distinguishable physical characteristics that rendered them decidedly other.

Sadly, many stereotypes found their way into caricature.

 

Above, you can see early examples of Jewish caricature that focus on supposed physical differences of Jews, including large noses and ears, oversized feet, and talon-like nails.

Later Nazi caricature traded in similar stereotypes of Jewish physical difference. (see below)

During this period of anti-Semitic propaganda, as some of you have noted, Jews were often likened to vermin, particularly mice and rats.

The Nazi film, Der Ewige Jude (The Eternal, or Wandering, Jew), one of the most disturbing anti-Semitic propaganda pieces, featured scenes that juxtaposed "typical" wandering Jew with images of rats and mice overrunning various parts of the globe.  This image (a still of the rats can be seen below) suggested that, like vermin, Jews spread chaos and disease, literal and metaphorical, wherever they went.

For more on anti-Semitic stereotypes, you might check out resources such as Sander Gilman's work on The Jew's Body, this book on Racial Science in Hitler's New Europe, or this book on Nazi propaganda.

For more early sketches and background on the creation of Maus, take a look at Meta-Maus, Spiegelman's behind-the-scenes account of the creation of his work.

Maus I (p 1-60)

Realism in a Surreal Setting

Anthropomorphic mice aren’t so hard to believe in lighthearted cartoons and children’s stories, but when these cute and cuddly animals start telling us of some of the most tragic stories in human history, it may be more difficult to suspend our disbelief. Spiegelman invests a lot of his narrative illustrating elaborate details of Vladek’s life and building  the relationship between father and son. Why does he invest so much of his story on little moments of spilled pill bottles, arguments, and tangents? How does this affect our impressions of a very surreal world of talking animals? Furthermore, how does this affect our impressions of the characters?

In Matthew’s blog post, he goes into greater detail on the discussion of the animal metaphor. I’d like to bring up for discussion the moments that contradict the setting’s own metaphor. What is significant about the moments that aren’t anthropomorphic? For example, what are the implications of Artie telling his father he wants his story to seem “human” or when Vladek complains of dry chicken? (are they really eating another animal??)

Is it significant that the characters seem unaware of their animal appearances?

Art Spiegelman, Maus I p 1-60

So, the immediate first question of Maus is the usage of animal metaphors. Though the cat/mouse dynamic—which, conspicuously, was also used in the animated film of the same year, An American Tail—is fairly obvious, what about Polish gentile as swine? Also, is Spiegelman playing with the precedent of the animal cartoon within the comics medium? What effect does subverting this typical 'light-hearted talking animal' achieve?

Another interesting theme throughout the first assignment is the protective relationship of fathers to their sons, which seems to be rooted in the hopes of preventing the son's repetition of the father's past. Vladek describes his father's drastic efforts to prevent his sons from entering the army "...because when HE was young, he had then to go into the Russian Army" (47 in my copy, which i realize is a little off from the assignment). A similar pattern is later found in Vladek himself, starting with Richieu's reaction to the returning father's cold, military buttons—a loaded symbol in itself (68). Cut to the 'present' and Vladek is throwing away his second son's coat in exchange for something "warmer" (71).

What can we make of this, and how does it alter the reading of the father's advice in the preface of the comic?

Art Spiegelman and Maus

When Art Spiegelman published MAUS I in 1986, he transformed the medium of comics and greatly affected the American literary world. His work experimented with the traditional form of the comic strip at the same time that it altered forever the content associated with the medium. Spiegelman's choice to depict the Holocaust and its aftermath in a medium often associated (rightly or wrongly) with children, cartoons, and simple caricature changed both the landscape of the comic and that of Holocaust representation. Comics or "comix," as Spiegelman dubbed them, were suddenly taken much more seriously than ever before. MAUS I and II appealed to a broader audience than did the conventional comic strip. When MAUS won the Pulitzer Prize in 1992 (after the publication of the second volume in the series), Spiegelman's work drew even greater attention. Since the publication of this magnum opus, he has become one of the comix medium's greatest advocates, traveling the country with his Comix 101 presentation and arguing for the importance of the form.

Spiegelman was born in 1948 in Stockholm, Sweden. His parents, Anja and Vladek, who appear as central characters in MAUS, were refugees, survivors of the concentration camps and World War II. Using the medium of the comic and the figures of the cat and mouse to represent Nazi and Jew respectively, MAUS tells Spiegelman's parents' stories, as well as his own. After getting his start by editing and writing for the graphic magazine RAW, in which early drawings from MAUS were serialized, Spiegelman went on to draw covers for The New Yorker for a number of years, eventually falling out with the editors due to the political nature of many of his drawings.



How does Spiegelman's medium affect his message in MAUS? Is there something sacrilegious about his representation of the Holocaust? Do we read his work as straight memoir, fiction, or some hybrid in-between genre? Has he chosen the appropriate vehicle for telling this story?

Blog Discussion #3: The Six Steps, A Word About Color, Putting it all Together

I’m sad that this is the end to McCloud’s Understanding Comics. It was a great educational book (especially because it was a comic book). McCloud’s explanations were clear and he made the “conversation” not always one sided. He broke the forth wall of his comic book world to address the reader and a few times interacted (placing the mask on the viewer then telling them to smile, and if the reader can hear the words he is saying that they might want to get their ears checked since they shouldn’t be able to hear him because he was in a comic). I will miss this read (I rented my book so it will be gone come the end of the semester).

I know that there are a few art students in this class and it’s always good to get a perspective from people that are not up close to the subject.

Is McCloud’s definition of art “any human activity which doesn’t grow out of either of our species two basic instincts: Survival and Reproduction!” (McCloud, 164, Panel 1) too broad, just right or not enough to explain the universe that is ART?

And…

McCloud uses the "Six Steps" as a "Circle of Life" for comics and any medium.Will skipping step of the “Six Steps” affect the quality of the work? Do you have to cover all “Six Steps” to create ANY work in ANY medium or can you skip steps?

More on comics from Charles Hatfield

Click here for a piece by Charles Hatfield on comics as an art of "tension"

Blog Discussion #2 Time Frames, Living in Line, Show & Tell

Hey guys, Megan here as the other facilitator for Blog #2.

In chapter four of “Understanding Comics” by Scott McCloud, he talks about how comics could have a frame that expand over time and could include gutters in between each moment. Our minds create the connection that a scene can take place over an amount of time depending on the frame. Since this was written in 1994, a lot about frame work has changed. People have used the internet as a source to expand their comics and a few have taken advantage of internet art. This new form of comic is call GIF Comics.

Here are some different examples:

Ava's Demon

 http://yooci19.tumblr.com/post/93120185499/sensitivity

Spacestronaut: http://thespacestronaut.tumblr.com/page/8

Ava's Demon:  http://avasdemon.tumblr.com/

Homestuck: http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6

GIFs can be used for small actions: exaggerating words, emphasizing actions and more. These comics use GIFs for part or for all of their comics.

Do you think GIF Comics are comics?

McCloud points out that lines are our visual cues and icons to activate our senses. Movie theaters have been adding sense to movies for the audience to become more involved with the show (3D and 4D). With the evolution of movies, is it possible for comics to adapt to these changes? Will it take way from the quality of what makes a comic book a comic book or will it create more experience for the reader? For example getting rid of “that ripe smell” wave lines (like the ones over the trash) for a scratch and sniff.