Throughout the entire reading of the book, we see
Ben’s personality as an obnoxious womanizer obsessed with Caucasian women. He
claims to have a “distant relationship” with Miko even when he starts to date
other women when she leaves for New York. When we get to page 90, irony hits
Ben like a truck of bricks when he sees his ex dating a Caucasian man. He
speaks the same language Miko speaks and appears to embrace the Japanese culture,
much to Miko’s liking. What do you make of this? Do you think that this form of
irony is well deserved for a character like Ben, or do you feel sympathetic for
him? What can we draw from Leon (the new boyfriend), a White man embracing
Japanese culture? Do you think that this is a form of racism?
Another important topic that I found in Shortcomings was the portrayal of sexuality. There appears to be more acts of homosexuality involving girls than there are boys. This is important to analyze because the lesbian community appears to be easily accepted and no one is objecting to this. In Stuck Rubber Baby, there are multiple acts of male homosexuality that are frowned upon by the community. So if the male homosexual community was looked down in Stuck Rubber Baby, why was the lesbian community accepted so easily in Shortcomings? Is this a matter of a time where people were intolerant? Or do people accept lesbians more because of a more…. sexual…. desire?
Regarding Miko’s new boyfriend, I think it’s important to consider that not everything in this book is about race. We’re reading it as a work that portrays ideas about racial identity, but hopefully (and I do think Shortcomings lives up to this) the characters are more multi-dimensional than their race. So I don’t think there’s quite as much irony as the original post implies. In fact, Ben flies of the handle that Miko is dating a white guy, but we find out that his racial makeup is more complex (half Jewish and half Native American). I think the point of all this is that Miko didn’t leave Ben because he was wasn’t White or because he was potentially interested in White girls, she left him because he was a terrible person who treated her terribly. There’s more going on in this story than just interactions between racial archetypes.
ReplyDeleteAs for the ‘easy acceptance of the lesbian community’, the story is set in Berkley in roughly contemporary times. So…it’s a pretty liberal crowd. This is compounded by the fact that they seem to be in a roughly academic environment. Again, a pretty liberal crowd. Stuck Rubber Baby was set in the South in the ‘60s. Not such a liberal crowd. I think the setting (both physical and temporal) is the biggest and most actionable difference between the ‘acceptance’ of homosexuality in the two works. I don’t think it has anything to do with what the original post insinuates in that last sentence.
I think Ben's conversation with Meredith in the bar asks these questions and then answers them. Why is one way considered wrong, and the other is okay? Alice is what would make me sympathize with Ben. Like in that same conversation when she mentions "I know for fact that he actually agrees with you.." showing that though Ben says some offensive and politically incorrect things, it is a result of his own inability to cope, not that he necessarily believes them.
ReplyDeleteAs for that last note I agree with Max. It is all related to the time period and area the stories took place. The idea's have shifted culturally, therefore it is not unlikely that the ideas would seep into writings.
Agreed with Max on this one. Although I feel it does show a lot about Ben's character. He clearly still has some attachment issues is he travels across the country to follow her. They haven't even been talking on the phone, so to the reader it's just absurd that he still thinks they're even somewhat dating.
ReplyDeleteIt was very interesting seeing the play of events from his perspective though--getting there and finding she wasn't even working where she said she was anymore, finding her in postcards, etc. He's very delusional in the way that he thinks that they're still together, but that aside, I did find it striking the difference between the two on how he was still so stuck and she had so clearly moved on.
So even though he had no right to think they were still dating, much less be angry about her going out with other people (especially a "white" guy,) I can see where he was coming from, at the very least. Not feel bad for him (because he's a narcissist and a moron,) but I can at least see his train of thought to an extent.
And I'm not sure there's really any comparison between the two books. completely different time period with different crowds and different issues it's focusing on.
I would argue that the graphic novel itself does not sympathize with Ben. The irony manifests his hypocrisy which he then must confront. His similar pursuit keeps him from being any kind of victim in the relationship, and the filling in of the previously missing goodbye scene assigns more fault to Ben then perhaps the reader ascribed beforehand. I'm not quite sure what the poster is asking about racism, but I do not find anything in Shortcomings to be racially offensive. The while man who speaks Japanese, if anything, just expresses interest in Miko (one of Ben's shortcomings) as well as pique Ben's racial sensibilities.
ReplyDeleteThe strife of homosexuality is no integral to the story of Shortcomings. This is not to say that there is no opposition to the lifestyle on a social level, but within the sphere of the story, there is no particular contest. Rather, conservative intolerance is replaced by the awkward naivete of our conflicted protagonist.
I think what struck me as the most ironic part about the situation was that BEn said he didn't think he was discriminated against in huge beginning. He seems to think that white men dating Asian women is terrible because it's a white guy fetishizing an Asian woman. Somehow he thinks that his pursuant of white women should be celebrated (when he talked to "the fence sitter" about the sign Asian men give each other). How can Ben think that he's never been discriminated against, yet he thinks snagging a white woman is a big deal.
ReplyDeleteI think what the poster means by racism in Shortcomings is Ben's attitude toward Leon based on the sole fact that he's white. I that sense, I think Ben does have issues with racism.
I didn't find that Shortcomings showed a society that was accepting to lesbians. I don't think we saw enough of the society that these characters live in to know. We just see their circle of friends which is based around Ben and Alice. In Stuck Rubber Baby we saw a lot of the society that surrounded the central characters so I don't think the two texts are that comparable.
First of all, it is very ironic. Ben sees himself in Miko with Jason and is immediately angry. He is quite the hypocrite when he engages Miko about her "affair." He never admits to sleeping with a white girl himself. Their argument is so intimate and final. They bring out all their "shortcomings" and Ben is left to deal with his own relationship failures.
ReplyDeleteI think the DVD's Miko finds in the first half of the novel foreshadow the kind of fetishization and acceptance of lesbian behavior as long as there is yet some sort of male gaze involved. I think maybe by omitting male counterparts in gay relationships brings this to keenly to light. We are forced to confront this strange double standard.
I love that bit of irony! Ben's the type of person that can "dish it out but can't take it," so I took some pleasure in his pain here. I do think they should have been more clear with each other over what their relationship meant, but that's not important. I thought it was great that the caucasian boyfriend embraced her culture and she clearly embraced his, though Ben never wanted to embrace even his own! Ben is unpleasant.
ReplyDeleteI kind of agree that the lesbian community is more accepted because of sexuality than male homosexuality. I hate to reference this, but I was watching one of those "I Love the New Millennium" TV specials on VH1 and they mentioned the band t.a.T.u. All of the guys being interviewed were freaking out about how awesome their music video was because the girls made out. However, later they were making fun of Clay Aiken or NSYNC or something basically for being gay. They are presented to the world in totally different ways because of the sexualization of women. Hello porn. This is something I noticed about the two books as well, so I'm glad you mentioned it.
I felt like Ben was reading way too much into the fact that Miko's caucasian man was fluent in Japanese. He is not of Japanese descent, but that doesn't mean he learned the language to to impress Miko. We know nothing about him, so it is completely unfair and unreasonable to just make judgements. Maybe he had to learn the language for his job. Maybe a relative married someone of Japanese descent and he learned the language in order to better communicate with them. Ben, however, doesn't see this; like most people who see their ex with someone else, he just launches into jealousy. In a way, I think Ben was being somewhat racist towards this man, but I don't think he quite realized it.
ReplyDeleteAs for the homosexuality question, I have to admit I was caught off-guard because I have never read anything where lesbian sexuality was so prominent. When homosexuality is depicted, it always seems to be between men, whether it be in written or visual form. This is strange though; I agree that the lesbian community is more widely accepted, yet we see fewer depictions of them. Unfortunately, I can't really offer an explanation as to why, though I think Traci is on the right track with her point about sexualization.
Ben's obsession with caucasian women essentially boils down to breaking a taboo. The structure of his fascination exists primarily on a superficial level: he doesn't need much more convincing other than the fact that they are a: white, b: female to make a move. When he see's Miko's white boyfriend, Ben feels threatened because it's very clear that her interest in the man is more than a passing fling: her boyfriend is capable of speaking her native language, of holding deep, personal conversations with her. He is able to communicate with Miko, which Ben is unable to do even in english. Ben tries to frame his anger in race, but it's really more than that. Ben has already shown that he feels inadequate with his racial identity, and here is someone who comes from an ethnic background that Ben finds desirable… and is even capable of co-opting elements of Miko's culture naturally. Ben claims to feel betrayed, but he's really feeling threatened by the man's presence.
ReplyDeleteGenerally speaking, lesbian communities are often depicted in fiction as being more acceptable, and the same holds true for Shortcomings. I think a major part of that fact lies in that said mediums are very often framed through the male gaze, be it on part of the creator, or the characters in the story itself. Part of it has to do with the general sexualization of women in American culture, but there's also seems to be something to the extremely archaic gender dynamics that often surround men. Even in the year 2014, it is broadly frowned upon for men to showcase any traits that would traditionally be considered "feminine." So, it's not just that the male gaze likes to paint women as being open and sexual, but it's also that the male gaze is terrified of presenting those same aspects to men (and by proxy, itself).
I think Ben is a rather despicable character, and I feel little to no sympathy for him. In a way, I think that Miko dating Leon is poetic justice for Ben mistreating Miko. However, I don't think that Leon's embracing of Japanese culture is racism, but rather a sincere and honest attempt on Leon's part to embrace Miko's culture in order to show her that he truly cares and loves her. I think that for him to completely ignore Miko's culture might be seen as racist, and that is precisely what Ben did. Although he shared a similar heritage to Miko, he tried to simply ignore it. This obviously ended badly for him.
ReplyDeleteI also would agree that the prevalence of lesbianism in Shortcomings is due to the male ideas of lesbianism as "sexier" than male homosexuality. Ben specifically might have found this sexually appealing or gratifying, and I think this is a reason for why it is included in the novel. Furthermore, I think that people in general are more tolerant of female homosexuals than males because the predominantly paternal society we live in has been more accepting of the "mistakes" of women, but is harsher on men.
I think the irony is well deserved not only because it sticks it to Ben for being a cheater and for treating women like objects to be achieved but also because it shows just how prejudiced and contradictory Ben really is. It’s okay for him to date a white woman but not for Miko to date a white man? Not to mention by Ben accusing Leon of dating Miko because he has an Asian fetish is disgusting because the only reason he tried dating Autumn and Sasha was because he had a white fetish. I quite honestly don’t see why anyone would feel sorry for Ben and am surprised anyone was willing to put up with him. It’s nice that Leon embraced Japanese cultures. Americans are notorious for not knowing enough about other cultures or being able to speak more than one language and it makes one think about taking other cultures seriously. I’m a little confused how this would be a form of racism? It’s not like Leon is insulting the Japanese culture or language. Perhaps some would say that it’s a form of cultural appropriation but I don’t see how it could be that either. He has a very respectful interest in the culture and that is what causes him and Miko to connect.
ReplyDeleteIn reality I don’t think one is tolerated any more than the other but I think it has a lot to do with the fact that it’s women dating women and not men dating men. Even in a platonic relationship women are known to be more affectionate with one another than men are their platonic relationships so it’s not so shocking to see an affectionate relationship between women. Men are looked down upon for being affectionate with one another no matter if it’s a platonic, familial, or paternal relationship. Any time a man shows a bit of affection for another man they’re instantly labeled gay which is often considered an affront to masculinity making an actual gay man a bigger affront. But I also think it has something with fetishism. Since men often fetishize lesbian relationships they are acceptable for that sole purpose while homosexual male relationships are not natural. That’s not to say women don’t fetishize homosexual male relationships but what men think of sexuality often has more weight than women.
It is definitely ironic that Miko hooks up with Leon because of Ben’s prejudice with white guys going after Asian women while he himself pursues relationships with white women. The truth is however, Leon isn’t necessarily white, Miko states, “He’s half Jewish, half Native American” (101). As for embracing other cultures, I don’t see this as a form of racism. If anything it is the opposite of racism. It’s like saying I’m racist because I like rap music or because I can speak Spanish. The truth is we don’t know enough about Leon to make a judgment, and honestly it doesn’t matter who Miko is hooking up with behind Ben’s back because their relationship was doomed from page one.
ReplyDeleteAs for the homosexual aspect of the comic, I do believe that the modern time era plays a huge role in the difference between Stuck Rubber Baby, but the fact that we’re dealing with lesbians also makes a difference as well. The treatment of the gay community is way better off today than it was in the 80’s. Also being a lesbian usually means taking on a more masculine persona, and being masculine in our culture is a plus. However, being a homosexual male has a connotation of being more feminine or weak. Women are often seen as objects of male desire. That’s why two women making out with one another can be viewed as sexually arousing, while the opposite is true of two men making out.
I think its difficult to draw comparisons between "Stuck Rubber Baby" and "Shortcomings." The two stories take place in very different times and settings.
ReplyDeleteI know the question about the white boyfriend embracing Japanese culture was well-intended ... but I must say, as someone who was in a long term interracial relationship, the question made me laugh and roll my eyes a bit. Sharing culture is not racist. Sometimes people date one another because they share a mutual attracted to each other. In terms of the relationship, nationality or ethnic identification can be absolutely arbitrary.
I would definitely say it is hard to link "Stuck Rubber Baby" and "Shortcomings" due to the obvious differences in how racism has changed. I think one of the more close ties that these stories share is characters learning to deal with racism and their own prejudices. Ben seems to be so oblivious of his own racism when he thinks that any white male going for an Asian girl is because of a fetish/fantasy. At the same time has prided himself on hooking up with a white girl and holds others to a different standard. Toland, the main character of Stuck Rubber Baby is aware of his own prejudices due to his circumstances. I think Devon made an awesome point about how Americans are notorious for knowing very little about other cultures and very quick to make assumptions.
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