One major difference that I've noticed between Persepolis and Maus is the point of view from which we're seeing the violence that occurs. In Maus, we're seeing it from the eyes of a fully grown man, to whom a great amount of the violence is directed. In Persepolis, it's primarily from the eyes of a young girl no older than 14, who really rarely actually witnesses the violence, to a point where it almost becomes a sidenote to the life of Marji that we're going through. Do you think that the fact that we're getting it from the perspective of a child takes away from what really went on, or do you think it showed everything reasonably well?
If not...are they ways you think she could have shown it better? I know it's the true story from her perspective, but I feel like I don't know much more about the Iranian revolts and whatnot than I did before I read it.
Or do you think that's not even meant to be the focus of the story? I know it's a coming of age story about her during and after the revolts, but it still took me off guard how little of all that we actually witnessed.
I think that it shows how innocent children are and even though all this violence is going on, she is still somewhat sheltered--kind of like a lot of our children are. I have heard of the Iranian revolts in short but I do not know much about them. It shows her perspective on what was going on around her and the internal conflict she had on what the "truth" was. It wouldn't be a memoir if she didn't give her insight on what was going on and how it affected her. If the memoir is a true memoir, the more we read the more Marji will develop her ideas on the revolts and what was going on around her.
ReplyDeleteThere’s a saying, I can’t remember the words exactly, that translates to a child is the only who can see the truth in a situation. So even though her thoughts are shaped by her surroundings and her school, she knows the obvious differences that are occurring between events and asking herself “why do people do this to themselves.” I don’t think there was any better way for her to do this because this was her style or explaining. If she wanted to she probably would have made it a better way.
ReplyDeleteI think that the war plays a part in shaping the story but it’s a side-plot while being on the main plot. In a way it seems that the story is about Satrapi explaining how her views were shaped (it’s an autobiography) with a focus on how war is effecting all sides. Especially her view on everyone trying to take over her country and pushing their thoughts/sneaking their thoughts onto her people.
I know what you mean here, I knew nothing about the Iranian revolution or how our cultures were more closely related than I would have ever thought before 1979. I looked at images of Iran before and after the revolution, or more before and during, I guess. I wish that there would have been more of a background section on exactly what the revolution was and what happened during those years. Most of my knowledge of the Iranian revolution came from the movie Argo and that was all told from the perspective of Americans and Canadians, so it was basically of no use here!
ReplyDeleteIf we had been given some background knowledge, we could understand more of what this would have been like for a child of Marji's age. However, I also think our understanding of the revolution being through her eyes gives us an idea of how little she actually knew during this time. We are seeing the revolution as innocently and ignorantly as she did, though clearly not up close as she was.
If she were to show the revolution in a clearer light, she could have added a background of life before the revolution, what the shah was like, and then some observations about the very first start of the revolution. The revolution is one of the main focuses of the novel; as I see it, we are reading the story of how the revolution affected the way this young girl grew up. Without knowing about the revolution, we would not understand the significance of her moving to Vienna, her hardships when finding friends, or her struggle with drugs and finding herself.
I wish the story would have more about the revolution itself, but I also am not sure I could handle another story so heavily based in death, as Maus was.
If I’m interpreting the goal of your question correctly, you’re asking about the representation of the Iranian Revolution/associated violence in Persepolis. Feel free to correct me if I’m off on that, but for now I’m assuming that’s what’s being asked.
ReplyDeleteI think butting this work up against Maus really shows some of its biggest faults. In Maus, Spiegelman is able to immerse the reader in the events of Vladek’s life and allows them to experience and ::feel:: the weight of the events, albeit in a vehicle of abstraction (the comic book). Turning to Persepolis, I had a feeling very similar to the one you alluded to where you put the book down and you think ‘I didn’t really :experience: anything while I was reading that’.
For me, Persepolis has a real problem in its lack of storytelling elements (I’m mostly talking about theme). Even memoir, when done well, is :selective: about which parts of the story it chooses to tell to piece together a cohesive narrative that presents a point of view about the events. Here, I really feel like we’re just getting a bunch jumbled stories from her diaries that haven’t been strongly composed in any way.
The reason that I make this point is that I think it plays heavily into why the Iranian Revolution/associated violence stuff feels distant and secondary. Nothing has been foreground-ed in the story, which consequently makes everything feel background-ed. Persepolis is :kind of: about the Iranian revolution, just like it’s :kind of: a coming of age story, just like it’s :kind of: about finding your identity in a foreign culture.
The fact the reader is getting the information about the Iranian revolt from a child’s perspective does take away from what really went on. In Maus, the author includes more details such as; maps, diagrams, statistics, and a feasible timeline. We do get a sense of what went on in Iran, but at a basic level. In the second half of the story, the reader becomes completely oblivious of what is happening in Iran. This is a direct result of Margi being oblivious because she mentions that she was too ashamed to keep up on the affairs of her home country. Mostly because she was no longer a part of it. It would be beneficial for the reader to read up on the Iranian revolt before reading in order to achieve a better understanding of the story.
ReplyDeleteThe focus of the story is definitely on Marji life. This story is a memoire first, and a coming to age story second. Then there is some information about the Iranian revolt sprinkled in to make it politically relevant.
Maybe it's as you said more of a coming of age story. I think its interesting to get a young person's perspective on the Iranian revolution, especially one who has just spend a good deal of time alone in Europe. The story offers an interesting perspective. We can understand the revolution in a way that westerners who might not know what it's like to grow up during a conflict can understand and a relate to.
ReplyDeleteThe story is being told through the eyes of a 14 year old girl, so I honestly believe that she has told the story the best way that she can. It does look like there have been parts where she left some stuff out, but maybe she can't remember those events well enough. Perhaps there are details that are being suppressed because they are too violent for her to handle. Sometimes you suppress memories because they are too much. I believe that this is a coming of age story and that the violence is just a part of the bigger picture.
ReplyDeleteI think as a class we may be getting bogged down with formula and expectations. Do I think this is a story about the Iranian Revolution? Only in the periphery. Do I think it is a coming of age story? Not entirely, but the story does have some of those tropes.
ReplyDeleteDo I think this is the author's personal story about a specific time in her life? Yes.
As already mentioned, the perspective is being told by a preteen - young adult and the understanding of the Revolution presented in the book is consistent with the understanding that Marji had. What I saw in the story was the chaos and confusion the Revolution wrought and furthermore how it affected people on a micro scale.
I think that Satrapi account of the happening in her life were not suppose to focus on the war torn middle east. I think she did a good job with providing bits of information like the origin of the veil. I think it was a way of showing how repressive cultures affect people, the women in general. There was an exchange between Satrapi and another woman about how the religious laws side with the men. I feel the story shows many things a few examples are how we are controlled by the media, how religion can influence people, amongst other things. I think that the books give a good glimpse of life of a Persian woman trying to survive in a world that does not understand her and a world she does not understand.
ReplyDeleteI think that Persepolis is exactly what it claims to be: the story of a childhood. Rather than try to explore the historical and political influence of the Iran Revolution, the graphic novel merely shows the perspective of these events from one young woman. Much like MAUS, it is fairly biographical. But also like MAUS, it gives an impression of what it was like to be alive in such a historic event. While I will say that Persepolis definitely does not show as much violence as MAUS, I think that it still gives the reader a reasonable understanding of the violence through subtle but effective means.
ReplyDeleteIt is true that Persepolis lacks a historical background to explain the significant events occurring within the story. But technically, neither does MAUS. The author simply assumes a fair amount of knowledge on the reader's part. The only difference lies in the culture. Whereas the history of World War II, Nazi Germany, and the Holocaust are fairly well-known subjects in the Western world, the history of the Iranian Revolution is not well known in the West. But I get the impression that Iran's role in the history of the Middle East is well-known throughout the region. So, just like MAUS is a look into one man's experience of the Holocaust, I find Persepolis to be simply a look into the life of a childhood growing up during the Iranian revolution, rather than an account of the history itself.
Honestly, I thought she did an excellent job of representing what went on in the Iranian crisis. I felt more informed after reading this, because I hadn't really seen it from an Iranian's side. It probably helped knowing about this going into the reading, but I felt like the book did a good job of representing what was going on. However, I really have to say and agree with some of the previous posters by saying I don't think that was really the point. This book takes place during the Iranian crisis, this is true. But as many have said, I don't feel as though this is what it was about. This book is about Marjane. I think this graphic novel does an excellent job showcasing what's going on in the world through Marjane's eyes. I get to understand it a little bit more, but most of my understanding is formulated through her eyes, and that helps me to get to know her so much better. I've thoroughly enjoyed this book simply because it's not really about much more than this character's life, DURING this intense time. I have to disagree with Max who says that the storytelling in Persepolis feels jumbled and not strongly composed in any way. I think these stories are strongly composed in their seeming "random" placement because they are clearly what's important to this character, and that is more telling than anything else. Especially in first person, you can't do a lot of expository explaining about a character that she wouldn't naturally do herself. But by showing what it is she chooses to tell, we can really learn a lot about her. The way she tells the story of her first love I thought was incredibly poignant in this regard. It focuses on several really small bits throughout the two years they were together, but doesn't really emphasize it as a whole, and by the time it's dropped you feel like it already wasn't important anymore. I just feel like Marjane does an excellent job of putting bits of the story in the exact right place to say what she wants to say and introduce us to her exceptionally well.
ReplyDeleteI love the way they have shown the few bits of the war we have seen. It's always bigger multi-frame images, and it always uses a lot of dark colors and tons of bodies to overwhelm in a way, but also to show the vagueness in a way. Marjane understands basically what's going on, but not in detail. And I like the way she chooses to show that.
I'll agree that I think these events are 'important to the character'. But Satrapi has yet to convince me that these events should be important to me.
DeleteWhen discussing the violence (or lack there of) in a piece of work, we have to understand that the memory of a fourteen girl is quite different from that of an adult. Adolescents do not remember events the same way they would if they were an adult in the same circumstance. For example, I have seen documentaries on 911 where children remembered seeing people flying, when in actuality, people were falling to their death from the World Trade Center. Now... somewhere in the child's mind, and especially as they get older, they may realize the mistake in their original thinking, and I'm sure Marji did also. However, the point is that a child doesn't comprehend certain events the same way an adult would and as some others have pointed out, Persepolis, while telling the story of the Iranian Revolution, it's still a coming of age novel. Marji may have wanted the story to remain authentic to how she remembered and interpreted the events she witnessed at the time, even if she now sees everything through adult eyes.
ReplyDeleteI actually have been thinking about the perspective of this story a lot because it is so unique. We see so many similar stories being told by either an elder, like in Maus, or a young adult just coming into their own. Here, we begin with Marji at twelve years of age witnessing atrocities most people don't see in their entire life. It's a strange way to see things, looking through the eyes of a child at war, but I find it a very refreshing and compelling perspective, even though we don't see much of the violence directly. As a child, Marji sees the world in a completely different way than adults. She understands that there are great struggles occurring in her country, but she doesn't fully grasp the depth or consequences of them. She simply takes a stance (and often flip-flops on it) in an attempt to fit in. Marji continues this behavior after being sent to live in Austria, where she is able to be a somewhat more normal teenager. I believe that this is really what the story is getting at. We aren't meant to have a thorough understanding of the war because the narrator does not. Rather, she is just trying to find her way through the hell of adolescence and the harrowing difficulty posed by the war and her forced relocation.
ReplyDeleteI don't believe this is suppose to be a story about the Iranian revolts themselves which are likely to have their own separate historical books about them but a more personal account of how these revolts affected a child when she did not fully understand war. It's shown how Marji and the other kids misinterpreted much of what went on around them either from what their teachers taught them or what they personally took away from what was happening around them. If anything it shows how living in a war zone that constantly alters the way of life for everyone affects a child later on.
ReplyDeleteAs the revolts go on Marji is a caught in the middle of it during an awkward age in which shes does not fully understand herself or understand the world around her. As she gets older she begins to think that rebeling against the entire idea of war and religion is the right way to go and we later find that it makes her a very confused young adult that has lost her bearings in the world. She even admits that going through this time caused her to ignore the war because she felt overwhelmed but what she viewed as the loss of her Iranian identity in an attempt to be an individual of Western standards. The story is not so much about the Iranian revolts themselves but how the youth at the time had to piece together their identities and just what it meant to be Iranian at time of so much political strife.
I think what's important to understand here is that the historical contexts that surround each of the works has vastly different influences on the main characters. In Maus, the Holocaust is the catalyst (and foundation) of the entire story. Art wants to write about Vladek's experiences in the camps. That sets up a fundamentally different angle in which the events of the story are focused. The violence and horror are a major cornerstone of why the story is being told at all.
ReplyDeleteIn comparison, Persepolis is a coming-of-age story that happens to be inserted into the chaos of the Iranian revolution. That's not to say that the two narratives are separate - they aren't - but they occupy different spheres. Whereas Maus was mostly about violence being enacted on the individual, Persepolis is about an individual living within a circle of violence (more or less).
Ultimately you have to stay true to the story. In this case, the Revolution itself is inherently secondary to the events of Marji's life, for the most part. And I think that unto itself is something of importance, especially given the news of the Middle East today. It's easy to forget that amid all the chaos, terror, bombing, and intervention, people are still living their lives to the best of their abilities. Human beings have an uncanny ability to adapt to even the most horrific of circumstances. Actually, I think that's a central thread that both Maus and Persepolis share.
With less of the attention directly on the revolution I see it more as the unseen effects had on their youth being displayed throughout the story. Yet it is not a side note, but an integral piece as to how it shifted the life of Marjane, and many others. Not specifically with direct violence but definitely deterred how she would have grown without the revolution.
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