Throughout Stuck Rubber Baby, Cruse draws analogies between civil right and the rights of LGBT people. Do you think this analogy is appropriate? How does the connection he draws help to illuminate the connections between race, gender, and sexuality? How does the theme of secrecy about sexual orientation in Stuck Rubber Baby relate/ not relate to the way Johnson and Pleece portray racial passing in Incognegro?
In order to help answer these questions and understand the timeline of what Cruse narrates in his graphic novel, please take a look at these links with the timelines for civil rights and gay rights in the U.S.
There's also an interesting NPR piece about the analogies between civil rights and the gay marriage.
I think drawing analogies between civil rights and the rights of LGBT people is very common place and is a good analogy because we as human beings simply want access to the same rights regardless of the color of our skin, religion and sexual orientation and gender and financial class. Women used to fight for the right to vote and now we fight for equal pay. Men have recently been fighting for paternity leave. LGBT couples have been wanting equal rights for marriage and spouse coverage for their partners on their health insurance policies. We are always fighting for the same rights because people want to be seen as equals in every possible way. We want to be equal socially, by law and in financial terms.
ReplyDeleteIncognegro and Stuck Rubber Baby are similar in the way that people 'pass' as being something else in order to survive society and its social norms. "The nail that stands out tends to be the first to be hammered in." Many characters in Incognegro passed as something/someone else in order to avoid persecution and to gain better living conditions. The main character in Stuck Rubber Baby tried everything he could think of as normal in order to pass as a heterosexual male like his habit of masterbating to playboy and dating women.
I have to agree with Jennifer on this one. The analogies are appropriate because we want the rights and freedoms as everyone else regardless of our appearance. We as individuals want and should be judged by the actions we make and not by who or what we are.
ReplyDeleteThis graphic novel is similar to Incognegro because of the way that the main characters 'pass' into society without disturbing the social norms. Zane in Incognegro uses his light colored skin to be accepted by the white community, while Toland uses his 'playboy habits' to mask his homosexuality. They are able to hide their real identities in order to survive an intolerable world.
Jennifer hit the nail on the head. We're a country that claims to live by the statement that "all men are created equal," so it stands to reason that all men should have equal rights (and I hope it goes without saying that when I say "men" it's understood that I mean humankind.) I think passing has a much deeper meaning than just looking like everyone else, or being accepted. I think (especially with the passing that Toland does in Stuck Rubber Baby) that it's a deeply seeded desire to be seen on the same playing field, that even though one is different, that it would still be recognized as normal, the whole concept of not judging a book by its cover feel pretty relevant.
ReplyDeleteWhich is pretty hard, especially when you grow up in a society where there are those prejudices, so you struggle with them yourself. Even Toland was seriously averse to the thought that he might be gay, and fought it tooth and nail right up to the end of the book.
The whole topic of discrimination feels particularly relevant to me at the moment, as I'm just putting the finishing touches on a story in my journalism capstone about women in the military and the discrimination they've had against them because they're women, and I've noticed so many of the same themes, of women changing themselves basically into guys just so they could have a place in the military, a place which is supposed to be their second family.
How does the theme of secrecy about sexual orientation in Stuck Rubber Baby relate/ not relate to the way Johnson and Pleece portray racial passing in Incognegro?
ReplyDeleteThere is an obvious connection between race, gender, and sexuality in that they are all causes for discrimination, both personally and in a historically societal level. There has been, and in some cases still is, legislation restricting African Americans, women, and homosexuals. I would argue that there are key differences between the black experience and the gay experience, though the movements are generally analogous.
Race, or more accurately ethnicity, is a quality that is naturally externally expressed. It invites the immediate preconceptions of others forged historically by culture. Sexuality, however, is something that resides purely internally. This aspect, along with religious condemnation, forms a kind of guilt and pressure that is unique to the queer condition. Furthermore, sexuality is something that often is an ongoing negotiation of feelings—most homosexuals must come to an eventual conclusion and acceptance of their honest identities (there's no 'coming out' in race). I do not think, as mentioned above, that Toland is "masking" his sexuality with heterosexual exploration as much as he is just indulging in the 'correct' behavior that has been established in the culture.
Incognegro closes this gap with ethnically ambiguous characters who have the ability to 'pass,' in a way similar to an individual whose secretive of their sexuality. Regardless, the discriminative repercussions of revealing one's identity are present amongst all minority conditions.
Yes and no. I feel that civil rights is the act of people just having a need to be higher or better than other people. It’s like the episode of The Fairly OddParents: The Same Game where Timmy wishes that everyone was completely the same (grey blob beings) but quickly found that people still believed that they were the “greyest and blobbiest” blobs. It’s almost like society needs scapegoats, no matter what. Also to quote The Fairly OddParents on the loss of civil rights not working “Not cool man. Not cool.” Where the issue of SLGBTQ community is an issues of the state separating itself from the church, because as much as politics likes to say it has accomplished this, the problem of the SLGBTQ community being denied rights because of the interaction of religion in politics.
ReplyDeleteThe relation between Zane hiding his ethnicity and Toland hiding his sexuality is very close. Both must hid their true selves in order to live.
I think the connection of secrecy of sexual orientation and racial passing is interesting. Sexuality is not something visual and neither is race. With this in mind, our understanding of race and sexuality must adjust. If it's not visible, what is it? Mostly, they are both just constructs to categorize and marginalize people. In Stuck Rubber Baby, homosexual is seen as deviant. Racial "otherness" was deviant to white people. In reality, there is no "normal" behavior or race. Therefore, there is no deviance. I think maybe Cruse is trying to make this point regarding sexuality in Stuck Rubber Baby as much as Incognegro did regarding race.
ReplyDeleteI definitely think that the analogies between the struggle of the Civil Rights movement and LGBT rights is fair. One only needs to chart the history of each movement throughout their respective histories to see that there is a lot of bleed over in terms of the kinds of prejudices that each group has had to endure: violence, limited social movement, reduction of rights or values, etc.
ReplyDeleteAmerican culture has long been dominated by white males. As such, the expectations of what American culture should look, sound, and feel like have been structured around that foundation. For a long time, anything that nudged an individual in the category of the capital "O" "other" was seen as dangerous, deviant, and decidedly un-American. The definition of what constituted being placed in that category was not exactly scientific, so it really came down to a matter of being of any group that threatened the stability of that white male dominated worldview. Civil rights, LGBT groups, feminism; all of these things were seen as equally dangerous, and met with equal disdain and pushback.
Make no mistake: these groups were targets, in very real terms. For many of the individuals who belonged to them, the only viable way to continue to live their lives the way that they wanted to (as the wheels of social progress often turn very slowly), was to assume a level of secrecy about it. For many people the only way to live… was to live as other people, essentially. In that light, there is a crossover between Stuck Rubber Baby and Incognegro, as they both deal with the aspect of wearing a mask of one sort or another, and molding yourself to fit the expectations of the status quo around you.
I definitely think the analogy is appropriate! There are some things that do not line up but the struggles these people had/have to face was very similar. There are similarities in the prejudice and movements involved to help these people get the freedom they deserve. Not only does this relate to sexual orientation and race, but it also could be connected with women’s rights. We are all striving to be equal and although this may not happen, people will always seek equality regardless of sexual orientation, race, gender, etc. The idea of passing in Incognegro can relate to Stuck Rubber Baby because of the passing of trying to be something that you’re not—trying to seek normality or something that’s “superior” to the rest.
ReplyDeleteI agree with everyone when saying the analogy is appropriate. To begin gay rights is a civil right so it is only logical that the connection is made. I find it very interesting that one does not learn of the discrimination of gays in history like we do with what we call the "civil rights" movement, mostly of the African American community, or even women rights. They too were lynched and targeted by the American South communities, along with other countries such as the Nazi's. I did not know that people once thought homosexuality was a "sociopathic personality disturbance" in medical journals, its just too ridiculous to think about. I think Stuck Rubber Baby brought up many themes popular in the 90's culture that it was written in, gay rights, racism (which is still a problem), and feminism/ women's rights.
ReplyDeleteThe connection to Johnson and Pleece's Incognergo and the idea of passing is very important to this book. For Toland is an active passer, I would assume that's the correct term, through out the entire book. As someone who has many gay friends today I find it slightly odd, and vexing that he thinks he can simply become not gay. But due the time period and intensity of scrutiny he would receive for openly being gay, I can understand. Still my least favorite part of the book though.
Many people have expressed the similarities of the gay rights movement to the civil rights movement. Civil rights and gay rights are realistically about the same thing: all men (men being mankind) are created equal. It's kind of impossible not to create the connection. Both involve people who are being judged and receiving bigotry for things that are who they are. It's kind of hard not to see them as the same kind of argument. I think it's interesting and very smart that these two go hand in hand in this story. Each one helps add on to the other's message, making both a more powerful message overall. Both really highlight in the novel how much these people are humans, just like everyone else.
ReplyDeleteThe correlation to Incognegro is actually pretty stunningly similar. Zane was passing for a white man, which was considered the socially acceptable thing to be, and Toland was passing as a straight man, also the socially acceptable thing to be in the time. Both used these "masks" as something to hide behind to protect themselves from people who would otherwise treat them very poorly, even possibly hurt them. And it shows in both stories, as people nearby them who are found out as gay or as black are both killed. It's sad that these had to be masks for them, but it does show the power of masking. Both are shown to ultimately be flawed though, because not being who you are can really end up hurting both you and others around you.
The analogy is appropriate. Both are movements towards rights, and I think Les' monologue at the Melody Motel party really sums it up. You can change your sexual orientation as much as you can change your skin color.
ReplyDeleteI didn't think the secrecy in Stuck Rubber Baby and Incognegro was similar. Toland's secret is useful to him because he isn't comfortable with himself, let alone ready to take on the public. Zane used his secret identity as a way to report lynchings. Both were in hiding, yes, but one for more selfish reasons than the other.
I think the analogy is very appropriate. Toland coming to terms with his homosexuality was a big step for him, especially coming from the family he did. Homosexuality was seen as something so unnatural yet unavoidable, like having dark skin. He's trying to get himself to understand that homosexuality is okay, just as tolerant Americans are trying to get everyone else to understand the same thing about being black. I would definitely say this compares to racial passing because Toland is trying to be something he is not.
ReplyDeleteI do think the analogy is appropriate because the sufferings of African Americans and LGBT people are too much alike: lynching, murder, burnt alive, beaten, degraded, etc. At the same time, however, there is also a huge difference. Those with dark skin cannot hide that they are black and therefore cannot escape any prejudice towards them. Some LGBT people can keep their sexuality secret to escape persecution but at a huge expense of emotional and mental freedom. But overall the comic seems to emphasize that anyone who isn’t a white male is subjected to some poor treatment despite movements and laws. While not at all as extreme as it was during the time period the comic it is set oppression and expectations for all groups are still in place.
ReplyDeleteI believe that sexuality and race coincide easier when comparing Incognegro and Stuck Rubber Baby. Zane has to decide whether he wants to be seen white or black with his fair skin. It’s because of his fair skin that he can pass by as white. At the same time Toleland can easily pass as straight as long as he dates Ginger or shows he has interest only in women. While he doesn’t convince those closest to him he does manage to pass in public thanks to his involvement with women. As long as they act “normal” their white appearance and sexuality saves them from trouble while those they love suffer for not playing pretend so effectively.
I definitely think the analogy is appropriate because someone who is gay/lesbian suffers the same prejudices that a person of color may face. In some cases it may be worse and in some better but there are struggles for both. I agree with others that it may be easier for someone to hide the fact that they are gay or lesbian than if they have dark skin, but it's more a matter of the fact that they shouldn't have to hide it. Everyone deserves to experience the same human rights regardless of gender, race, or sexual orientation. Religious too for that matter. The Civil Rights Movement focused on giving rights to people of color but we are experiencing the same movements now with the gay and lesbian community and their wish to marry legally. What is interesting to me is why it takes so long for people to accept these movements? People need to practice empathy for others and ask themselves how they would feel in the same situation.
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